Oblivion:Spell Stacking - Revision history

Ultrapotassium: add Brian Bosch's AoE spell stacking experiments

2025-03-14T21:42:43Z

add Brian Bosch's AoE spell stacking experiments

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 14 March 2025
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	''List pending.''		''List pending.''

			==AoE spell stacking==
			[https://discord.com/channels/330252789374779393/892473620989898805/916094707132661830 brianbosch — 2021-12-02 2:33 PM]
			ok i made a prototype of AoE spell chain and did a test, it already gives the speed really efficiently but its lacking a bit more health. this time i show the spellmaking process so you can open the game and follow my video to have this setup on your own save file (you have to get the everscamp staff first)
			the demo starts at 5:25 aprox. the spell chain execution is just 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. that's it. [https://youtu.be/8B9LzsdrLwY]
			<pre>
			2:34 PM]MeemawHustlin: including the before part is super helpful thanks for including that part
			[2:34 PM]MeemawHustlin: that's a super easy to remember spell chain too lol
			[2:34 PM]MeemawHustlin: is the AOE itself enhanced by the weakness to magic or just the magnitude?
			[2:36 PM]brianbosch: yeah only the magnitude
			[2:36 PM]MeemawHustlin: so for using this setup we would absolutely need to have already done class reset right?
			[2:36 PM]MeemawHustlin: because of the level 100 in several skills? Or would we just buy training for those early on
			[2:37 PM]brianbosch: nono the only requirement is mysticism 100 thats it
			[2:37 PM]MeemawHustlin: oh I see, you're switching the magnitudes to show that
			[2:37 PM]brianbosch: and i used 300* magicka assuming 100 intelligence + high elf
			[2:38 PM]MeemawHustlin: is 2k speed approximately what the original setup did?
			[2:38 PM]MeemawHustlin: for the non AOE
			[2:39 PM]brianbosch: now i see that i used half the magicka pool so probably 200 magicka is enough (high elf lvl 1)
			[2:39 PM]brianbosch: i used 800-1,300 in both speed and athl in the map exploration speedrun video, i replicated that here
			</pre>

>Brian Bosch: /* Example Spell Stacks */

2022-01-21T00:26:55Z

Example Spell Stacks

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:26, 21 January 2022
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	Because each copy of the spell is overwriting itself each time, the end of the spell stack results in the horse only have two active spells on it, one for each copy of the spell, both with a two minute duration. This allows the player a long time to use the payload Speed effect to travel around the map.		Because each copy of the spell is overwriting itself each time, the end of the spell stack results in the horse only have two active spells on it, one for each copy of the spell, both with a two minute duration. This allows the player a long time to use the payload Speed effect to travel around the map.

	For more examples of spell stacks, see our progress in implementing them into map exploration.		For more examples of spell stacks, see our progress in implementing them into map exploration and other tasks here: [[Oblivion:Useful Spell Stacks\|Useful Spell Stacks]].

	==Negative Spell Effects==		==Negative Spell Effects==

>Brian Bosch: added an image

2022-01-20T21:32:14Z

added an image

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:32, 20 January 2022
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	'''Spell Stacking''' is a game mechanic that allows you to use Weakness to Magic to recursively boost the magnitude of spells with negative effects on subsequent spell casts, including Weakness to Magic itself. This allows for casting spells with incredibly large magnitudes relatively easily, enabling the player or a desired target to reach absurdly high stat values. While spell stacking is a game mechanic, the player's ability to apply it to themselves is not. In the latest patch, you can only apply Weakness to Magic to yourself via a [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic Reflect on Self\|spell reflecting glitch]].		'''Spell Stacking''' is a game mechanic that allows you to use Weakness to Magic to recursively boost the magnitude of spells with negative effects on subsequent spell casts, including Weakness to Magic itself. This allows for casting spells with incredibly large magnitudes relatively easily, enabling the player or a desired target to reach absurdly high stat values. While spell stacking is a game mechanic, the player's ability to apply it to themselves is not. In the latest patch, you can only apply Weakness to Magic to yourself via a [[Oblivion:Weakness to Magic Reflect on Self\|spell reflecting glitch]].

			[[File:Spell Stacking.png\|thumb\|A High Elf performing a Spell Stacking setup using Reflect Spell on a summoned skeleton.]]

	==Instructions==		==Instructions==

>MeemawHustlin: /* Poisons */

2022-01-17T08:07:23Z

Poisons

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	====Poisons====		====Poisons====

	Although potions are completely unaffected by Weakness to Magic, poisons are affected. This is not a useful ~~affect~~ for the player as any potion with at least one positive effect is not considered a poison, although it could be useful in stacking effects on others by using poisoned weapons or reverse pickpocketing poisons onto NPCs.		Although potions are completely unaffected by Weakness to Magic, poisons are affected. This is not a useful effect for the player as any potion with at least one positive effect is not considered a poison, although it could be useful in stacking negative effects on others by using poisoned weapons or reverse pickpocketing poisons onto NPCs.

	===Example Spell Stacks===		===Example Spell Stacks===

>MeemawHustlin: /* Methods */

2022-01-17T08:06:46Z

Methods

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:06, 17 January 2022
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	A calculator for Weakness to Magic stacking has been provided [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-eZbe2JgwJPngwxvYNtMJ4ngYA7xNZl8/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104430489625956261497&rtpof=true&sd=true here].		A calculator for Weakness to Magic stacking has been provided [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-eZbe2JgwJPngwxvYNtMJ4ngYA7xNZl8/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104430489625956261497&rtpof=true&sd=true here].

	===Methods===		===Methods of Applying Weakness to Magic===

	====~~On Self Reflect~~====		====Applying Stacks to the Player====

	On Self Weakness to Magic spells were originally able to be stacked on the player in v1.0, but were patched in v1.2. However, by making an On Touch/On Target spell with the desired effects and reflecting it off of another NPC or creature first, the game now considers it a spell that was cast at the player, not by the player. This results in the Weakness to Magic effect stacking correctly, making Weakness to Magic stacks on the player still possible in v1.2.		On Self Weakness to Magic spells were originally able to be stacked on the player in v1.0, but were patched in v1.2. However, by making an On Touch/On Target spell with the desired effects and reflecting it off of another NPC or creature first, the game now considers it a spell that was cast at the player, not by the player. This results in the Weakness to Magic effect stacking correctly, making Weakness to Magic stacks on the player still possible in v1.2.
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	In this case, casting the spell the first time will apply the 100% Weakness to Magic effect as expected, but all subsequent casts will replace the previous version before applying the new instance of the effects. This means that the second cast would not scale up to equal 300%, nor would it linearly add on to the previous total to equal 200% since the previous effect gets removed. It would simply be 100% again. Note that this spell stacking behavior On Self is applicable to all spell effects, not just Weakness to Magic.		In this case, casting the spell the first time will apply the 100% Weakness to Magic effect as expected, but all subsequent casts will replace the previous version before applying the new instance of the effects. This means that the second cast would not scale up to equal 300%, nor would it linearly add on to the previous total to equal 200% since the previous effect gets removed. It would simply be 100% again. Note that this spell stacking behavior On Self is applicable to all spell effects, not just Weakness to Magic.

	====AOE ~~on Target~~====		====AOE Spells====

			On Touch/On Target spells that have an area of effect will reflect multiple instances of that spell back at the player. Each individual instance of a reflected spell counts as a separate stack of Weakness to Magic, meaning that the exponential scaling of the effect will be much faster when done in this way. Start by casting a Reflect 100% spell in an area around several creatures or NPCs (for example, the Scamps from the Staff of the Everscamp) and then cast a Weakness to Magic AOE spell repeatedly on those creatures to scale up extremely quickly. Finally, deliver a reflected payload spell to apply a massively boosted spell to the player.

	====Enchanted Weapons====		====Enchanted Weapons====

	The spell effects on enchanted weapons work the same way as spells. There is no difference ~~currently known~~ between the two mechanics.		The spell effects on enchanted weapons work the same way as spells. There is currently no known difference between the two mechanics.

	Using an enchanted dagger is the fastest way known to stack the same ~~effect/s~~ on each other in order to perform the spell stacking mechanic. Combining an enchanted dagger and different spells ~~are the fastest way currently known to stack~~ high values of effects since different spell/enchantment effects stack on each other exponentially, while a same effect stacks on itself linearly. This method consists in attacking an entity with an enchanted dagger and casting different spells between each attack. It works for spell stacking on other entities as well as on the player's character using a Reflect Spell effect first.		Using an enchanted dagger is the fastest way known to stack the same effects on each other in order to perform the spell stacking mechanic. Combining an enchanted dagger and different spells stacks high values of effects since different spell/enchantment effects stack on each other exponentially, while a same effect stacks on itself linearly. This method consists in attacking an entity with an enchanted dagger and casting different spells between each attack. It works for spell stacking on other entities as well as on the player's character using a Reflect Spell effect first.

	====Poisons====		====Poisons====

>MeemawHustlin: /* Basics */

2022-01-17T07:44:31Z

Basics

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:44, 17 January 2022
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	Weakness to Magic stacking has several mechanics that are not intuitive:		Weakness to Magic stacking has several mechanics that are not intuitive:

			* Weakness to Magic On Self was patched in v1.2. On Self spell effects are no longer influenced by the amount of Weakness to Magic on the player, regardless of its source.
	* Casting the same spell will replace the previous instance.		* Casting the same spell will replace the previous instance.
	* Weakness to Magic does not affect the other spell effects within its own spell, only on subsequent casts.		* Weakness to Magic does not affect the other spell effects within its own spell, only on subsequent casts.

>MeemawHustlin: /* Methods */

2022-01-17T00:29:23Z

Methods

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:29, 17 January 2022
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	Using an enchanted dagger is the fastest way known to stack the same effect/s on each other in order to perform the spell stacking mechanic. Combining an enchanted dagger and different spells are the fastest way currently known to stack high values of effects since different spell/enchantment effects stack on each other exponentially, while a same effect stacks on itself linearly. This method consists in attacking an entity with an enchanted dagger and casting different spells between each attack. It works for spell stacking on other entities as well as on the player's character using a Reflect Spell effect first.		Using an enchanted dagger is the fastest way known to stack the same effect/s on each other in order to perform the spell stacking mechanic. Combining an enchanted dagger and different spells are the fastest way currently known to stack high values of effects since different spell/enchantment effects stack on each other exponentially, while a same effect stacks on itself linearly. This method consists in attacking an entity with an enchanted dagger and casting different spells between each attack. It works for spell stacking on other entities as well as on the player's character using a Reflect Spell effect first.

			====Poisons====

			Although potions are completely unaffected by Weakness to Magic, poisons are affected. This is not a useful affect for the player as any potion with at least one positive effect is not considered a poison, although it could be useful in stacking effects on others by using poisoned weapons or reverse pickpocketing poisons onto NPCs.

	===Example Spell Stacks===		===Example Spell Stacks===

>MeemawHustlin: /* Exponential Scaling */

2022-01-17T00:16:24Z

Exponential Scaling

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:16, 17 January 2022
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	Weakness to Magic: 700 pts.		Weakness to Magic: 700 pts.
	[100 pts + (600% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 700 pts]		[100 pts + (600% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 700 pts]
	CURRENT TOTAL: 12 pts (from spell 1) + 21 pts (from spell 2) = 33 pts Speed,		CURRENT TOTAL: 12 pts (from spell 1) + 21 pts (from spell 2) = 33 pts Speed
	400 pts (from spell 1) + 700 pts (from spell 2) = 1100 pts Weakness to Magic.		400 pts (from spell 1) + 700 pts (from spell 2) = 1100 pts Weakness to Magic.
	</pre>		</pre>

>MeemawHustlin: /* Exponential Scaling */

2022-01-16T23:50:55Z

Exponential Scaling

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:50, 16 January 2022
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	Weakness to Magic: 100 pts.		Weakness to Magic: 100 pts.
	[100 pts + (0% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 100 pts]		[100 pts + (0% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 100 pts]
			CURRENT TOTAL: 3 pts (from spell 1) = 3 pts Speed
			100 pts (from spell 1) = 100 pts Weakness to Magic.
	(Cast spell 2)		(Cast spell 2)
	Fortify Speed: 6 pts.		Fortify Speed: 6 pts.
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	Weakness to Magic: 200 pts.		Weakness to Magic: 200 pts.
	[100 pts + (100% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 200 pts]		[100 pts + (100% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 200 pts]
	CURRENT TOTAL: 9 pts Speed, 300 pts Weakness to Magic.		CURRENT TOTAL: 3 pts (from spell 1) + 6 pts (from spell 2) = 9 pts Speed
			100 pts (from spell 1) + 200 pts (from spell 2) = 300 pts Weakness to Magic.
	CYCLE 2		CYCLE 2
	(Cast spell 1 again)		(Cast spell 1 again)
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	Weakness to Magic: 400 pts.		Weakness to Magic: 400 pts.
	[100 pts + (300% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 400 pts]		[100 pts + (300% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 400 pts]
			CURRENT TOTAL: 12 pts (from spell 1) + 6 pts (from spell 2) = 18 pts Speed
			400 pts (from spell 1) + 200 pts (from spell 2) = 600 pts Weakness to Magic.
	(Cast spell 2 again)		(Cast spell 2 again)
	Fortify Speed: 21 pts.		Fortify Speed: 21 pts.
	[3 pts + (~~400~~% WeakMag * 3 pts) = ~~200~~ pts] ~~// THESE DONT ADD UP~~		[3 pts + (600% WeakMag * 3 pts) = 21 pts]
	Weakness to Magic: 700 pts.		Weakness to Magic: 700 pts.
	[100 pts + (~~400~~% WeakMag * 100 pts) = ~~500~~ pts] ~~//THESE DONT ADD UP~~		[100 pts + (600% WeakMag * 100 pts) = 700 pts]
	CURRENT TOTAL: 33 pts Speed, 1100 pts Weakness to Magic.		CURRENT TOTAL: 12 pts (from spell 1) + 21 pts (from spell 2) = 33 pts Speed,
			400 pts (from spell 1) + 700 pts (from spell 2) = 1100 pts Weakness to Magic.
	</pre>		</pre>

>MeemawHustlin: /* Exponential Scaling */

2022-01-16T02:12:16Z

Exponential Scaling

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:12, 16 January 2022
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	Finally, by casting a separate Weakness to Magic spell before casting the example spell where Weakness to Magic is the first effect, we can see that all three effects are scaled up by the other Weakness to Magic effect the first cast, but only Weakness to Magic continues to scale as it stacks off of itself. This shows that '''Spell effects will be boosted by Weakness to Magic effects from other spells/sources regardless of the Weakness to Magic effect order in the spell being cast.'''		Finally, by casting a separate Weakness to Magic spell before casting the example spell where Weakness to Magic is the first effect, we can see that all three effects are scaled up by the other Weakness to Magic effect the first cast, but only Weakness to Magic continues to scale as it stacks off of itself. This shows that '''Spell effects will be boosted by Weakness to Magic effects from other spells/sources regardless of the Weakness to Magic effect order in the spell being cast.'''

	====Exponential Scaling====		===Exponential Scaling===

	Previous examples have all shown how to linearly stack Weakness to Magic on itself. To truly take advantage of this mechanic and push it to its extreme limits, you must incorporate multiple spells to exponentially scale the stacking effect. As previously stated, if you have a Weakness to Magic 100% spell that you want to apply to a target twice, the second cast will overwrite the effect of the first cast after being boosted by it, resulting in a 200% increase. However, if you have two of this spell, which can be identical in every way aside from their name so that the game counts them as separate effects, casting each of them back and forth causes them to replacing versions of themselves with progressively more amplified ones based on the Weakness to Magic of the other spell.		Previous examples have all shown how to linearly stack Weakness to Magic on itself. To truly take advantage of this mechanic and push it to its extreme limits, you must incorporate multiple spells to exponentially scale the stacking effect. As previously stated, if you have a Weakness to Magic 100% spell that you want to apply to a target twice, the second cast will overwrite the effect of the first cast after being boosted by it, resulting in a 200% increase. However, if you have two of this spell, which can be identical in every way aside from their name so that the game counts them as separate effects, casting each of them back and forth causes them to replacing versions of themselves with progressively more amplified ones based on the Weakness to Magic of the other spell.