Oblivion:Random Skill Books - Revision history

>MeemawHustlin: /* Route Logic Structure */

2022-10-12T04:59:18Z

Route Logic Structure

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:59, 12 October 2022
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	# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:		# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:
	## [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin\|Two Sides of the Coin]] needs to be completed to potentially acquire one random skill book without grinding. This book drop cannot be rerolled unfortunately.		## [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin\|Two Sides of the Coin]] needs to be completed to potentially acquire one random skill book without grinding. This book drop cannot be rerolled unfortunately.
	~~## [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] needs to be completed, quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly at the end of the quest to force one of the four random Combat skill books to drop.~~
	## The locations Ceyatatar, Underpall Cave, and Rockmilk Cave should already be discovered to save travel time. This means Random Skill Books should go after [[Oblivion:Map Exploration\|Map Exploration]].		## The locations Ceyatatar, Underpall Cave, and Rockmilk Cave should already be discovered to save travel time. This means Random Skill Books should go after [[Oblivion:Map Exploration\|Map Exploration]].
	# Random Skill Books should be acquired from loot farming in cycles as follows:		# Random Skill Books should be acquired from loot farming in cycles as follows:
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	##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.		##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.
	##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining OR ONLY one of the four Bear Season skill books remains, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.		##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining OR ONLY one of the four Bear Season skill books remains, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.
	# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.		# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books except for possibly one skill book that can drop as a reward for [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]]. Bear Season needs to be completed, quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly at the end of the quest to force the final Combat skill book to drop if one remains.

	This new strategy introduced in Version 4 saves on average about 0:45:00 over the previous method, with Random Skill Books now taking about an hour to complete generally.		This new strategy introduced in Version 4 saves on average about 0:45:00 over the previous method, with Random Skill Books now taking about an hour to complete generally.

>MeemawHustlin: /* Route Logic Structure */

2022-10-12T04:57:55Z

Route Logic Structure

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:57, 12 October 2022
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	##* A [[Oblivion:Load Warping\|Load Warp]] position is set inside the room the book container is in while facing the exit door. Ceyatatar is an exception since load warping to outdoors would remove the trapdoor, so that save is placed outside facing the trapdoor itself.		##* A [[Oblivion:Load Warping\|Load Warp]] position is set inside the room the book container is in while facing the exit door. Ceyatatar is an exception since load warping to outdoors would remove the trapdoor, so that save is placed outside facing the trapdoor itself.
	##* This phase ends with Load Warping back to Ceyatatar and waiting outside for 73 hours.		##* This phase ends with Load Warping back to Ceyatatar and waiting outside for 73 hours.
	## '''Grinding Loop:''' Now that Load Warps are set up, the player checks to see if any books of a certain type are left at a location, then Load Warps to that location and repeats the book farming until a new book is found.		## '''Grinding Loop:''' Now that Load Warps are set up, the player checks to see if any books of a certain type are left at a location, then Load Warps to that location and repeats the book farming until a new book is found. The only exception is Underpall Cave, which is skipped if the only remaining book from it is one of the four Bear Season skill books.
	##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.		##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.
	##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.		##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining OR ONLY one of the four Bear Season skill books remains, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.
	# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.		# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.

>MeemawHustlin: /* Route Logic Structure */

2022-10-07T21:02:00Z

Route Logic Structure

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:02, 7 October 2022
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	##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.		##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.
	# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.		# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.

			This new strategy introduced in Version 4 saves on average about 0:45:00 over the previous method, with Random Skill Books now taking about an hour to complete generally.

	==Potential Improvements==		==Potential Improvements==

>MeemawHustlin: /* Previous Methods */

2022-10-07T21:00:50Z

Previous Methods

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 7 October 2022
Line 59:		Line 59:

	The reason these locations were chosen was because there were two Boss Chests to check in each of them, and conveniently they had all already been visited earlier in the run for other reasons, making their doors and other obstacles already largely opened/cleared to make the navigation smoother.		The reason these locations were chosen was because there were two Boss Chests to check in each of them, and conveniently they had all already been visited earlier in the run for other reasons, making their doors and other obstacles already largely opened/cleared to make the navigation smoother.

			The time this section takes varies depending on RNG, but on average this section with the old strategy used to take about 1:45:00 to 2:00:00 to complete.

	==Current Method==		==Current Method==

>MeemawHustlin: /* Potential Improvements */

2022-10-07T20:50:31Z

Potential Improvements

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:50, 7 October 2022
Line 101:		Line 101:
	* Theoretically, Random Skill Books should be acquired as early as possible in the run in order to avoid a run-killing amount of bad RNG in the late game. As of Version 4, we still do Random Skill Books extremely late in the run, when in reality we only need to wait until just after Map Exploration to do them.		* Theoretically, Random Skill Books should be acquired as early as possible in the run in order to avoid a run-killing amount of bad RNG in the late game. As of Version 4, we still do Random Skill Books extremely late in the run, when in reality we only need to wait until just after Map Exploration to do them.
	* A possible area of improvement could be the 73 hour wait time. Implementing a consistent [[Oblivion:Time Warping\|Time Warping]] setup may cut down on wait time significantly.		* A possible area of improvement could be the 73 hour wait time. Implementing a consistent [[Oblivion:Time Warping\|Time Warping]] setup may cut down on wait time significantly.
	* It is possible to find all three of the Bear Season books in Underpall Cave before the other two, preventing the player from being able to skip a cycle of this dungeon. There may be a way to structure this section to guarantee that the final book is always one of the three desired books, but the only current idea of skipping these books if they are encountered would waste time.
	** Reordering this so Bear Season is done first to force one of the Underpall books should solve this. If RNG Manipulation is not discovered by the end of Version 5 routing, this should be implemented instead.

	===RNG Manipulation===		===RNG Manipulation===

>MeemawHustlin: /* Current Method */

2022-10-07T20:45:00Z

Current Method

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:45, 7 October 2022
Line 85:		Line 85:
	# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:		# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:
	## [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin\|Two Sides of the Coin]] needs to be completed to potentially acquire one random skill book without grinding. This book drop cannot be rerolled unfortunately.		## [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin\|Two Sides of the Coin]] needs to be completed to potentially acquire one random skill book without grinding. This book drop cannot be rerolled unfortunately.
			## [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] needs to be completed, quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly at the end of the quest to force one of the four random Combat skill books to drop.
	## The locations Ceyatatar, Underpall Cave, and Rockmilk Cave should already be discovered to save travel time. This means Random Skill Books should go after [[Oblivion:Map Exploration\|Map Exploration]].		## The locations Ceyatatar, Underpall Cave, and Rockmilk Cave should already be discovered to save travel time. This means Random Skill Books should go after [[Oblivion:Map Exploration\|Map Exploration]].
	# Random Skill Books should be acquired from loot farming in cycles as follows:		# Random Skill Books should be acquired from loot farming in cycles as follows:
Line 93:		Line 94:
	## '''Grinding Loop:''' Now that Load Warps are set up, the player checks to see if any books of a certain type are left at a location, then Load Warps to that location and repeats the book farming until a new book is found.		## '''Grinding Loop:''' Now that Load Warps are set up, the player checks to see if any books of a certain type are left at a location, then Load Warps to that location and repeats the book farming until a new book is found.
	##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.		##* After finding another book, the quicksave/quickload trick to force future loot rerolls is repeated to set up the next cycle for that dungeon.
	##* Underpall Cave has three books (''The Argonian Account, Book 1 [Athletics]'', ''Mace Etiquette [Blunt]'', and ''Master Zoaraym's Tale [Hand to Hand]'') that can be forced as loot drops during a future quest, but you can only get one of them, so that dungeon is skipped if the only remaining book is one of those two.		##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if there are no random skill books remaining, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.
	##* After looting or skipping all three dungeons, if ~~one of the three Underpall Cave~~ books ~~mentioned previously is the only book~~ remaining, the grinding loop is complete. Otherwise, the player Load Warps back to Ceyatatar and another 73 hour wait is performed in order to repeat the grinding loop again.		# The player should now have all of the Random Skill Books.
	# ~~Depending on the order of books were found in, the~~ player ~~either has~~ all of the Random Skill Books or is missing a single Combat book from Underpall Cave. The [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] quest is now completed in since it can drop the remaining book. Quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly just before turning the quest in allows for rerolling the book, which has a much higher chance of dropping as a quest reward than through random loot. If no skill book was needed, this quest reward is simply ignored and no rerolling is required.

	==Potential Improvements==		==Potential Improvements==

>MeemawHustlin: /* Previous Methods */

2022-10-07T20:40:25Z

Previous Methods

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:40, 7 October 2022
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	==Previous Methods==		==Previous Methods==

			===Version 1 to 3===

			The Random Skill Book routing stayed the exact same from Version 1 all the way through Version 3 aside from Version 3 using Skooma to run through dungeons faster. [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] and [[Oblivion:Two Sides of the Coin\|Two Sides of the Coin]] were completed at various points earlier in the route (With Bear Season forcing a random book drop) to acquire a few potential random skill books. The process of getting all of the books was to visit three locations, one dungeon type for each skill book type, and enter the dungeon/quickload repeatedly until a desired book was found in specific Boss Chests that could drop them. After one book was found at each dungeon, the player waited 73 hours to respawn the loot in all three dungeons, then the process was repeated until all random skill books had been found. This general loop is largely unchanged in the current strategy, but the old locations were sub-optimal due to extremely long travel distances to get to books, as well as some chests having locks that needed to be picked every time.

			The following locations were used:

			* <u>Combat Books:</u>
			** '''Fort Dirich''' in a coffin that is left through a big wooden door, and a locked chest in the back of a room past the coffin room.
			* <u>Magic Books:</u>
			** '''Moss Rock Cavern''' in two locked chests in a room found by hugging the left wall of the cave.
			* <u>Stealth Books:</u>
			** '''Imperial City Sewers - North Exit''' in two chests, one at each end of the first side room on the right.

			The reason these locations were chosen was because there were two Boss Chests to check in each of them, and conveniently they had all already been visited earlier in the run for other reasons, making their doors and other obstacles already largely opened/cleared to make the navigation smoother.

	==Current Method==		==Current Method==

>MeemawHustlin: /* Potential Improvements */

2022-10-07T20:13:40Z

Potential Improvements

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:13, 7 October 2022
Line 89:		Line 89:
	* A possible area of improvement could be the 73 hour wait time. Implementing a consistent [[Oblivion:Time Warping\|Time Warping]] setup may cut down on wait time significantly.		* A possible area of improvement could be the 73 hour wait time. Implementing a consistent [[Oblivion:Time Warping\|Time Warping]] setup may cut down on wait time significantly.
	* It is possible to find all three of the Bear Season books in Underpall Cave before the other two, preventing the player from being able to skip a cycle of this dungeon. There may be a way to structure this section to guarantee that the final book is always one of the three desired books, but the only current idea of skipping these books if they are encountered would waste time.		* It is possible to find all three of the Bear Season books in Underpall Cave before the other two, preventing the player from being able to skip a cycle of this dungeon. There may be a way to structure this section to guarantee that the final book is always one of the three desired books, but the only current idea of skipping these books if they are encountered would waste time.
			** Reordering this so Bear Season is done first to force one of the Underpall books should solve this. If RNG Manipulation is not discovered by the end of Version 5 routing, this should be implemented instead.

	===RNG Manipulation===		===RNG Manipulation===

>MeemawHustlin: /* Current Method */

2022-10-07T20:05:05Z

Current Method

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:05, 7 October 2022
Line 66:		Line 66:
	** '''Rockmilk Cave''' in a tent in zone two that has a Boss Chest next to the door.		** '''Rockmilk Cave''' in a tent in zone two that has a Boss Chest next to the door.

	These are massively improved over the dungeons used in previous locations, reducing the travel time per reroll from ~10-20 seconds down to only the few seconds the loading screen takes.		These are massively improved over the dungeons used in previous locations, reducing the travel time per reroll from ~10-20 seconds down to only the few seconds the loading screen takes. Additionally, the new Boss Chests are not locked, so even more time is saved by not having to complete the lockpicking minigame ever reroll.

	===Route Logic Structure===		===Route Logic Structure===

>MeemawHustlin at 20:02, 7 October 2022

2022-10-07T20:02:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:02, 7 October 2022
Line 47:		Line 47:


	==Dungeon Scouting==		==Current Method==

			Several improvements have been made to the process of acquiring Random Skill Books:

			===Dungeon Scouting===

	[[File:RandomBooks_Ceyatatar.jpg\|thumb\|right\|The Ceyatatar random skill book location. Note that this is the only one that requires movement to reach the container.]]		[[File:RandomBooks_Ceyatatar.jpg\|thumb\|right\|The Ceyatatar random skill book location. Note that this is the only one that requires movement to reach the container.]]
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	[[File:RandomBooks_Rockmilk.jpg\|thumb\|right\|The Rockmilk Cave random skill book location.]]		[[File:RandomBooks_Rockmilk.jpg\|thumb\|right\|The Rockmilk Cave random skill book location.]]

	Given that the time taken to travel to a Boss Chest each reroll is the main time sink, we scouted for locations for each of the three skill book types by looking at every dungeon’s ~~UESP~~ maps to find the closest Boss Chest to the entrance to a ~~zone~~. Here are the absolute optimal skill book farming locations:		Given that the time taken to travel to a Boss Chest each reroll is the main time sink, we scouted for locations for each of the three skill book types by looking at every dungeon’s maps to find the closest Boss Chest to the entrance to a cell. Here are the absolute optimal skill book farming locations:

	* <u>Magic Books:</u>		* <u>Magic Books:</u>
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	** '''Rockmilk Cave''' in a tent in zone two that has a Boss Chest next to the door.		** '''Rockmilk Cave''' in a tent in zone two that has a Boss Chest next to the door.

	~~==Route Logic Considerations==~~		These are massively improved over the dungeons used in previous locations, reducing the travel time per reroll from ~10-20 seconds down to only the few seconds the loading screen takes.

	~~Here is the general logic structure:~~		===Route Logic Structure===

	# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:		# A few things need to be done prior to random skill book farming:
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	# Depending on the order of books were found in, the player either has all of the Random Skill Books or is missing a single Combat book from Underpall Cave. The [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] quest is now completed in since it can drop the remaining book. Quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly just before turning the quest in allows for rerolling the book, which has a much higher chance of dropping as a quest reward than through random loot. If no skill book was needed, this quest reward is simply ignored and no rerolling is required.		# Depending on the order of books were found in, the player either has all of the Random Skill Books or is missing a single Combat book from Underpall Cave. The [[Oblivion:Bear Season\|Bear Season]] quest is now completed in since it can drop the remaining book. Quicksaving and quickloading repeatedly just before turning the quest in allows for rerolling the book, which has a much higher chance of dropping as a quest reward than through random loot. If no skill book was needed, this quest reward is simply ignored and no rerolling is required.

	===Potential Improvements===		==Potential Improvements==

	* Theoretically, Random Skill Books should be acquired as early as possible in the run in order to avoid a run-killing amount of bad RNG in the late game. As of Version 4, we still do Random Skill Books extremely late in the run, when in reality we only need to wait until just after Map Exploration to do them.		* Theoretically, Random Skill Books should be acquired as early as possible in the run in order to avoid a run-killing amount of bad RNG in the late game. As of Version 4, we still do Random Skill Books extremely late in the run, when in reality we only need to wait until just after Map Exploration to do them.
Line 86:		Line 90:
	* It is possible to find all three of the Bear Season books in Underpall Cave before the other two, preventing the player from being able to skip a cycle of this dungeon. There may be a way to structure this section to guarantee that the final book is always one of the three desired books, but the only current idea of skipping these books if they are encountered would waste time.		* It is possible to find all three of the Bear Season books in Underpall Cave before the other two, preventing the player from being able to skip a cycle of this dungeon. There may be a way to structure this section to guarantee that the final book is always one of the three desired books, but the only current idea of skipping these books if they are encountered would waste time.

	==RNG Manipulation==		===RNG Manipulation===
	''Full article: [[Oblivion:RNG Manipulation\|RNG Manipulation]]''		''Full article: [[Oblivion:RNG Manipulation\|RNG Manipulation]]''